Gezocht: tijd 0 > 100 km/u Citroën DS3 WRC

[Gast]

Iemand die me kan helpen hiermee? Technische gegevens genoeg, maar moeilijk te vinden in hoeveel seconden hij aan de 100km/u zit.

[Timmie]

5 minuten googlewerk

http://www.autozine.org/Archive/Citroen/new/DS3.html

Citroen DS3


Debut: 2009
Maker: Citroen
Predecessor: no

Mini-rivaling hatchback kickstart a full line of DS premium models

When gossips leaked out from Citroen last year, saying the French car maker was to revive the legendary DS name, I was excited. You know, the DS running from 1955 to 1975 was the most forward-thinking product ever built by Citroen. Its design and technology led contemporary cars by at least 10 years. Although it was also hampered by reliability problems and underpowered engines, today DS is still the symbol of the glorious days of Citroen.

Time has changed a lot since the retirement of DS. Citroen went into financial trouble and ended up in the hands of Peugeot in 1976. Entering 1980s, it started producing "ordinary" cars based on PSA platforms. Unique styling and technology were abandoned in favour of production efficiency, quality and costs. It worked. Today, Citroen runs a healthy business based on its mass market cars ranging from C1 to C6. Its management finally has time and money to think about another fancy model. What about reviving the DS badge ?

Well, if Citroen really thought in that way, I would have been happier. No, I can tell you the logic behind the new DS is not that romantic. Ice-cool product planners conducted research and found the C-range cars have already occupied all essential market segments that Citroen can compete in. Further growth, as always pursued by shareholders, have to come from new segments. What about SUVs ? good idea but probably too costly and risky to develop. It is better to leave to partner Mitsubishi. What about a rival to BMW's Mini ? That would make more sense. You can derive that car from C3 platform using better materials, more appealing packaging and sportier tuning. Sell it at higher prices to justify its premium image. Even more income can be generated through customization – colors, trims and countless of accessories – an idea sharing with Mini, Smart and Fiat 500. Moreover, this idea is not limited to one car. You can create a full line of premium models based on C3, C4 and even C5 platform. The only question is, how to brand this premium line ? Here comes the DS name.

Its look is not as easy to love as Fiat 500 or Mini, but if you appreciate French fashion or films, you may find it very interesting.

Consequently, the new DS3 is not a modern DS, but an entry-level premium hatch that Citroen uses to compete with Mini, Fiat 500 and Alfa Mito.

Citroen is brave not to adopt a retro design theme like its rivals. After all, it does not have heritage like Mini or Fiat 500 to use as basis. The DS3 is a clean-sheet design by its British designer Mark Lloyd. Since the car is built on C3 platform, Lloyd was given a very conventional set of restraints to start from. To differentiate it visually, he introduced a lot of eye-catching features, some look brilliant but some look simply odd, such as the half-height virtual B-pillar. Graphically it appears complicated, busy and unsettling. Sculpturally its form is conventional and even boring. Such contrasting qualities could divide opinions, incidentally, just like the original DS. For sure, it is not as easy to love as Fiat 500 or Mini, but if you appreciate French fashion or films, you may find it very interesting.

Comparatively, the interior is more conventional. Basically, the essentials are shared with C3. You get the same dashboard, although you have more choices of color for its gloss panel. The center console is mostly the same. As are the switch gears and available equipments. In terms of fit and finish and material quality, it is by no means lower than Mini. The fact that it doesn't look particularly more expensive than C3 speaks how much the latter has evolved. However, you are reminded of its sporty pretension through the flat-bottom steering wheel and various alloy trims. Once you are on board, you will notice the lower mounted bucket seats, how supportive they are and how much more natural the driving position is. The smaller windows, lower roof line and generally a darker ambience also remind you the difference from C3.

Nevertheless, this cabin is by no means cramped. Although the DS3 is 80 mm lower than the C3, it is still a good 50 mm taller than Mini, therefore it provides plenty of headroom. Its C3 basis also guarantees more rear passenger room than Mini could dream of. This mean four big guys can fit comfortably into the Citroen. Besides, its 285-liter boot is also very generous by class standard.

Powering the DS3 are essentially the same petrol engines as Mini - I guess BMW had never thought PSA would create a rival to its own Mini. They consist of 1.4 VVT, 1.6 Valvetronic and 1.6 direct injection turbo, offering 95 hp, 120 hp and 150 hp respectively. The last one is 25 horsepower short of Mini Cooper S, but it produces the same peak torque and wide power band, so the 1.6 THP always feels gusty. In fact, all these BMW-developed engines are willing to rev and pretty delicious to ears. The 1.6 turbo comes top just because of its extra punch, which suits a premium hatch. The 6-speed gearbox it mates is also far slicker than the 5-speeder on lesser models. Citroen claims the 1.6 THP take 6.9 seconds to go from rest to 60 mph, just 0.2 seconds longer than Mini Cooper S. Undoubtedly, more powerful versions will join in the future. But for now, we are perfectly satisfied with 1.6 THP.

Out on the road, DS3 brings some surprises: it handles and rides very well. Citroen has never been renowned for handling - perhaps with the exception of Saxo, which was based on Peugeot 106. Most Citroens were in favour of ride quality in the expense of body control and agility. However, in order to compete with Mini, Citroen finally adopted a driver-oriented approach on DS3. While the basic suspensions are unchanged from C3, harder springs and firmer damping are employed to tighten its body control. Different bushings and more sound insulation take care of the resultant NVH. Consequently, the DS3 delivers a sounded combination of handling and ride, which is very close to that of Mini Cooper. Its body motion is well controlled. Its steering is accurate and its weighting is well judged. Although the helm isn't as talkative as Ford Fiesta's, it still weighs up nicely and consistently in corners, giving the driver enough confidence and engagement. Grip is plenty. The chassis is set to slight understeer, but back off throttle and you will get some oversteer to play with. Most brilliant is its ride, more compliant than Mini Cooper on really poor roads yet without affecting high-speed stability. It is comfortable on the back roads as well as on highway.

In objective sense, Citroen DS3 has all ingredients to succeed, though it lacks innovation and creativity...

Ultimately, Mini is still more appealing to keen drivers, thanks to its faster steering and tighter body control. However, the Citroen's superior ride refinement means many people may find it a better compromise.

All these qualities make its entry-level price looks bargain. In Europe, the DS3 is priced nearly identical to the equivalent C3. The real money maker is options. There are 38 combinations of body, roof and door mirror colors and countless of interior options for buyers to personalize their cars. Fully optioned and it will end up at the territory of C5 !

In objective sense, Citroen DS3 has all ingredients to succeed. It is spacious and well built. It has good engines and adequate performance. It handles and rides well. However, in the end its success or not will depend very much on subjective aspects - whether people like its unusual design and whether the Citroen DS brand is perceived as cool as Mini. The latter is quite doubtful to me. However, brand is built by products, not vice versa. If Citroen can keep doing well in DS4, DS5 and their next generation, one day it will succeed. Therefore, all it needs is commitment, patience and consistency.

Having said that, I would like to point out one important missing element in DS3: innovation and creativity. Its concept copies that of Mini. In particular, its floating roof and customizable roof color / graphics are most obvious. For a Citroen reviving the DS name, this is hardly forgivable.

The above report was last updated on 20 Feb 2010. All Rights Reserved.

DS3 Racing




The Citroen hot hatch storms from rest to 60 mph in 6.2 seconds and hits a terminal velocity of 146 mph. Such performance is only matched by Mini JCW...

Citroen WRC team is going to switch to DS3 in the coming season. Of course, the WRC car will be vastly different from the road car. It will have four-wheel drive, overhauled chassis, sequential gearbox and a 1.6 turbo engine tuned to 300 horsepower. In contrast, the top-of-the-line DS3 at the moment possesses only 150hp. From marketing point of view, such a huge gap does not help promoting the road car. Apparently, it needs a hotter road-going DS3 to bridge the gap, and this is DS3 Racing.

Let's see its specifications first: with a new turbocharger, revised engine management mapping and tuned exhaust, the direct-injected 1.6-liter motor now pumps out a remarkable 207 hp – that's nearly 130hp per liter ! and it loses no tractability. Maximum torque of 203 lb-ft is available from 2000 rpm continuously to 4500 rpm, so it never needs to be squeezed like a VTEC motor. With such power boost, the little hot hatch storms from rest to 60 mph in only 6.2 seconds and hits a terminal velocity of 146 mph. Such performance is only matched by Mini JCW, which incidentally shares the basic engine architecture (though with different finishing). Most important, the Citroen hot hatch beats the reigning hot hatch champion, Renault Clio RS Cup, by a few tenths to 60 mph, even though its driver takes less effort to do so.

Its chassis also gets adequate upgrade. The first to catch your eyes are the wheel arch extensions which enable 30 mm wider tracks front and rear. The car now sits 15 mm closer to the ground, accompany with stiffer springs and dampers. Sporty 18-inch alloy wheels fill the wheel wells fully. They are wrapped with 215/40WR tires. Through the front rims you can see large brake discs (40mm larger than the standard car) and Brembo 4-pot calipers, which give impressive stopping power.

The DS3 Racing is no cheap hot hatch. It uses real carbon-fiber on its diffuser and cabin trim, no wonder it costs considerably more than Clio RS Cup (£23,000 vs £17,000). On the other hand, it will be a rare sight on street, because only 2,000 cars will be built. Some 1,000 of them will be reserved for its home market and the rest will go to the rest of Europe. The car is developed and built by the racing department of Citroen, no wonder it is so named.

So how does it drive ? Strong performance, flexible engine and tidy handling summarize its behaviour. Despite of its "racing" nameplate, the car is actually easy to live with. Its ride is firm but not harsh, totally livable on back roads. It plays lift-off oversteer, but it does so gently and predictably. If you push it really hard in the twisty, its inside wheel will struggle for traction and spin in tight corners. Torque steer does appears occasionally, but it's not a big issue. The electrical power steering is set heavier than that of the standard car. Its weighting is consistent from lock to lock and the amount of feel is reasonable, but not in the league of Clio RS Cup, of course. Purists will prefer the Renault for its honest steering feel and smooth handling. On the flip side, the Citroen strikes back with its stronger engine and superior ride refinement.

Thanks to the special color scheme, decorated interior and sports seats, and the overall higher style and build quality of the DS3 range, this car is definitely more desirable to own than the aging Clio. However, in pure driving terms it is no better. Moreover, its high price means it actually falls into a higher category against German premium products like a well-specced Golf GTi or even Scirocco R. That is the big question.

[Ice_ken]

ik denk dat de TS de rally wagen bedoeld hé

zal wel rond de 3-4seconden zijn

[Gast]

ik denk dat de TS de rally wagen bedoeld hé

zal wel rond de 3-4seconden zijn

kun je toch geen cijfer opplakken dan? die wagen wordt voor elke race uit elkaar gehaald en opnieuw ingesteld. 0-100 sprintje is dus weinig relevant aangezien dit anders ligt bij elke versnellingsbak instelling...

[PJH]

Inderdaad, er is geen vaste 0-100 tijd voor die dingen. Ter vergelijking. Ken block's gymkhana Ford fiesta doet 0-100 in 2.5 beweren ze...

[Gast]

Inderdaad, er is geen vaste 0-100 tijd voor die dingen. Ter vergelijking. Ken block's gymkhana Ford fiesta doet 0-100 in 2.5 beweren ze...

Maar die heeft wel 650 pk

[Gast]

5 minuten googlewerk

Jaja, uw 5 minuten googlewerk heeft nochtans niet opgeleverd wat ik vroeg...

[Gast]

Idd, wat betreft dieje Fiesta van Ken Block, da's het dubbel aan pk van dieje citroën. Zal idd mss ergens rond de 3, 4 seconden hangen, maar ik had gehoopt ergens officiele cijfers te vinden.

[Timmie]

Jaja, uw 5 minuten googlewerk heeft nochtans niet opgeleverd wat ik vroeg...

maar zoals hierboven aangehaald is daar geen vaste waarde op te plakken.
het enige dat je nog kunt doen is een estimation maken. nakijken ivm, gewicht + pk , koppel, overbrengingsverhouding enz.
zijn zelfs programmatjes voor te vinden.
natuurlijk ga je dan wel je googling skills verder moeten ontwikkelen

[Gast]

maar zoals hierboven aangehaald is daar geen vaste waarde op te plakken.
het enige dat je nog kunt doen is een estimation maken. nakijken ivm, gewicht + pk , koppel, overbrengingsverhouding enz.
zijn zelfs programmatjes voor te vinden.
natuurlijk ga je dan wel je googling skills verder moeten ontwikkelen

Met mijn googleskills is weinig mis hoor Ik stelde de vraag even hier omdat ik het zelf niet vond - en blijkbaar dus niet te vinden is.

Nevertheless; toch bedankt iedereen!

[Gast]

Die rijden met verschillende overbrengingsverhoudingen naargelang het parcours.
4s lijkt mij een goede richtlijn...

[Gast]

Het makkelijkste lijkt mij een spel als colin mcrea op te zetten en daar een willekeurige wrc te testen. Ik denk eerder richting 3s

[Gast]

Het makkelijkste lijkt mij een spel als colin mcrea op te zetten en daar een willekeurige wrc te testen. Ik denk eerder richting 3s

[Gast]

Inderdaad, er is geen vaste 0-100 tijd voor die dingen. Ter vergelijking. Ken block's gymkhana Ford fiesta doet 0-100 in 2.5 beweren ze...

Hier een rallycrossrace van jaren terug,tijd 0-100 komt onderaan op het scherm.
Ik denk dat zo´n DS3 WRC tussen de 3,5 a 4 sec zit naargelang de topsnelheid door de gekozen bakverhoudingen of de eindoverbrenging.

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